O.J. MAYO: REALLY MOST IMPROVED?

The other day, I called O.J. Mayo the "Most Improved of the 1/4-Way of the Season" Player (an award that I am sure he's going to put on his trophy shelf right next to his draft day picture). However, as a I pointed out, I highly doubt that Mayo will actually be the deserving winner of this award at year's end.

And that's because O.J. isn't really playing better basketball.

Dude...wait..wat?

Ok, sort of. Bear with me, I'll explain. Let's compare OJ's last season with this one:

SEA POS Min WP48 PoP48 WP PTS DRB ORB REB AST TO BLK STL PF
Mayo 12-13 (DAL) SG 784 .175 2.4 2.9 28.2 4.7 0.9 5.5 4.7 3.9 0.3 1.2 3.1
Mayo 11-12 (MEM) SG 1771 .072 -0.8 2.7 22.6 4.9 0.8 5.7 4.6 3.4 0.6 1.9 3.7
Average SG SG 1609 .099 0.0 3.3 21.6 4.4 1.2 5.7 4.6 2.7 0.5 1.6 3.5

Ok, so right now you're thinking my math skills suck, because .175 is a much bigger number than .072, right? Bear with me some more. Notice how most of these numbers are pretty much the same? Sure, he got better at fouls, but he's worse in steals and turnovers. So what explains his huge increase in productivity? Well, I should add O.J. Mayo to the FAQ, because his current season is really all the proof you need that Wins Produced does not "undervalue scoring" or "overvalue rebounds'. That's because basically all of Mayo's increased productivity comes from him transforming into a sharpshooting scoring machine:

  FG% 2FG% 3FG% FT% eFG% TS% FGA 3FGA PPS FTA
Mayo 12-13 (DAL) 48.9% 46.9% 52.5% 83.3% 58.6% 62.2% 20.4 7.5 1.38 5.1
Mayo 11-12 (MEM) 40.8% 43.4% 36.4% 77.3% 47.6% 51.3% 19.9 7.5 1.13 4.7
Average SG 43.4% 46.4% 36.6% 80.4% 49.0% 53.6% 18.0 5.4 1.20 5.0

52.5% from 3!? That's some straight shooting.

And here's where it gets interesting. This article started with an email inquiry from Professor David Berri:

Do you know what Mayo's WP48 would be if he shot from 3-point range this year as well as he did last year (and nothing else about this year changed)?

"Why no", I thought, "I don't know. But I bet my fancy database could tell me!"

Luckily, as the tables above illustrate, and as Dave's question alludes, there is already a ton of evidence that O.J.'s game is pretty much the same as it was last year, right down to the number of threes he is attempting. At the time of this writing, Mayo had attempted 115 threes, hitting 61 of them, and scored 460 points. Based on the per-48-minute averages, he would have shot 113.8 last year (the table above is rounding his 3FGA/48 numbers, in case you are wondering at the difference). If Mayo were shooting at career 36.6% (that's a more realiable sample, but it just so happens to be very close to last year's 36.4%), he'd have hit 42 of them (I'm rounding again). So, if that were the case, we would subract 57 points (19*3), and add 19 missed field goals to OJ's totals, and recalculate his production:

SEA POS Min WP48 PoP48 WP PTS DRB ORB REB AST TO BLK STL PF
Mayo 12-13 (FAKE) SG 784 .069 -0.8 2.6 24.6 4.7 0.9 5.5 4.7 3.9 0.3 1.2 3.1
Mayo 11-12 (MEM) SG 1771 .072 -0.8 2.7 22.6 4.9 0.8 5.7 4.6 3.4 0.6 1.9 3.7
Average SG SG 1609 .099 0.0 3.3 21.6 4.4 1.2 5.7 4.6 2.7 0.5 1.6 3.5

Kind of eerie how the result is so similar to his 11-12 season, isn't it? In other words, just about the only difference between last year and this year for O.J. Mayo is:

  • he's hitting more of his threes and hitting more of his free throws
  • his steals and blocks are down slightly
  • his fouls are down slightly, which mostly makes up for the steals and blocks being down

And truthfully, at the end of the day, if the only difference is that the shots are going in, especially when most of those shots are the same types of shots he has always been taking, is that really what we mean by "most improved"?

Now, I'm certain Mark Cuban will make an argument that this is largely coaching. That in Rick Carlisle's system, the looks that Mayo gets are better than he got in Memphis. But I have a very hard time believing this, for several reasons. The first is that Dallas doesn't have very much post scoring to draw defenses it; their best big is Wright, and he doesn't shoot a lot (one suspects that his unreasonably short leash might be the reason for that). The second is that defenses read scouting reports. They know that Dallas' big perimeter threat is Mayo, especially with Nowitski out. And the third is that...well, there's little evidence of it. If Carlisle's system is good at this kind of thing, why didn't have any super 3 point shooters last year? Jason Terry, Vince Carter, and Nowitzki were all good but hardly outerwordly. In other words, if it's the coaching, why is Mayo the only beneficiary? Does anyone honestly believe that suddenly O.J. Mayo is the best three point shooter of all time? It's much easier to belive that he is just running pretty hot. Occam's Razor is my motto.

If one is willing to concede that there is some element of coaching and general young-guys-getting-better involved here (and for the record, I am), it's more realistic to assume a percentage of around 40%, which means that Mayo has improved from "meh" to "average" play.  Which is OK, for $4 million annually. But one suspects that winning the "most improved player" award will probably lead people to believe that he is worth quite a bit more than that.

After all, someone paid DeMar DeRozan $10 million annually, right?

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Sol Orwell

Interesting ... interesting ... interesting ... *low blow at the end* :(

154 days ago

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HoopCount

I kind of disagree. I think OJ's increasing free throw attempts and fairly large increase in free throw percentage are promising. .50 more turnovers seems reasonable, considering his role went from after though on the Grizzlies, to savior on the Dirk-less Mavericks. His rebounding isn't a concern, as his slight increase in offensive rebounds (the ones that matter), are being offset by his slight decrease in defensive rebounds (the ones that don't).
While he may be averaging less steals and blocks, his defense hasn't suffered. He's actually ranked as the second best isolation defender in the NBA!

154 days ago

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Zachary Young

Except, HoopCount, that all those things you just mentioned aren't the reason his WP48 is so much higher this year. It's the 3FG%, and pretty much only the 3FG%. If he was shooting the way he always has - and he's shooting the same number and types of shots he always has - he'd be the same player. The only thing to disagree with is Pat's assertion that Mayo's three-ball will cool off, as the formula clearly shows that's the only factor at play.

154 days ago

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Patrick Minton

As Zachary mentions, he's better at some things (ORBs, fouls) and worse at others (steals, TOs), all of which are a wash. If you take away his 3FG%, he's just not better.

Also, his FTAs aren't really up. Notice that they are about the same as his 2009-10 rate. It certainly does not look like he is using the fact that defenses are biting on his threes to get to the line a lot.

Notice that I give the benefit of the doubt that it isn't just all variance and that he has gotten a little better; but I emphasize LITTLE -- I just do not believe that it adds up to a 'stardom' increase. 50% from three is insane so some of that really is variance.

153 days ago

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Steve Dickinson

It has been a great move for Mayo - he is really doing a great job of securing his future with this gap year in Dallas. Other GMs who salivate over 3 point shooting (all of them) will be clamboring over each other to give him a pile of cash and starters minutes, just what he has always craved.

I agree with Patrick though - the 3fg% MUST be unsustainable. No-one shoots this well for long periods of time. Is there another season from a player shooting 50%+ taking 7.5 3's per 48? I would guess it would be historic.

153 days ago

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Steve Dickinson

So if you aren't overly happy with your "Most-Improved" Patrick, who would you prefer?

153 days ago

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Julien Rodger

I have no doubt Mayo within a year is back to his old self, but it does fascinate me how a hot shooting streak can be this extended. It's not PURE chance at this point, he just has to be feeling particularly good stroking it or something. It reminds me of Mike James in 05-06 busting out to 20ppg by going 44% from 3 all season despite some of the most heroball shot selection I've ever seen, the guy just wouldn't miss

152 days ago

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Paul Müller

Even so, I agree with the principle conclusion that Majo's 3fg% will come down, I cannot agree with this line:
"Well, I should add O.J. Mayo to the FAQ, because his current season is really all the proof you need that Wins Produced does not "undervalue scoring" or "overvalue rebounds'."

If someone shoots an unsustainable high efficiency from 3-point land with a high usage rate and only increases his WP48 by 0.1, I would argue exactly that. ;)

I remember that somebody from the WoW network mentioned that in 2010/2011 Dirk Nowitzki made the most Net-Points in the entire league, but he ranked only 66 in total Wins Produced. If true, it is "all the proof you need" that efficient high volume scoring is undervalued. ;)

Maybe you can correlate the scoring measure with WP and Off./Def. Rebounds with WP to answer the question which measure is valued higher by WP.

152 days ago

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Patrick Minton

Steve,

At the end of the year, I think the deserving candidate might be JJ Hickson -- I probably should have given him the nod right now, in fact. I was probably wrong to say that he was sort of "ineligible."

Paul,

If you think a .1 WP48 improvement is trivial, you clearly do not understand standard deviations. Also, my measurement of over/under valuing anything is not based on "what Paul Mueller thinks the standard is", nor will it ever be.

151 days ago

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Paul Müller

@ Patrick
"If you think a .1 WP48 improvement is trivial, you clearly do not understand standard deviations."
I do not argue that it is a big deal, but on the other hand, it is this the result of a 3P-performance which never happened in the history of the NBA (and probably will never happen).

"Also, my measurement of over/under valuing anything is not based on "what Paul Mueller thinks the standard is", nor will it ever be."
I understood your comment as if you would try to reach out to the people who think that rebounds are more important in deriving WP than scoring. Thus, I assumed you are trying to make the case that you can increase your WP with scoring just as easily as with rebounding. That is why I suggested to compare it to the value of rebounds (at best to an example of an historic high in rebounds).

Even better would be if the WoW community could provide splits for WP numbers, which indicate how each player's WP48 is composed. (e.g. +0.05 Scoring, -0.05 Rebounds, +0.01 Ball-handling/Assists, +0.03 Defense ...)
That would actually provide a starting point to a discussion about the real value of Scoring vs. Rebounds. So far most people (including me) do not know how WP is actually valuing scoring vs. rebounding, thus rendering any discussion about how it should value it rather useless.

151 days ago

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benjamin durham

paul if you want a stripped down version of WP to evaluate scoring value vs rebounds look at win score its the simple version of WP and is very simple to calculate, and look at dave berris analasys of this well documented though inaccurate argument.

that said, shooting performances like the one mayo had last night agaist miami seem to suggest that oj wont be 50%+ on 3pa forever. if only someone had had the forsight to blog that huh.

151 days ago

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Michael Motherwell

> So far most people (including me) do not know how WP is actually valuing scoring vs. rebounding, thus rendering any discussion about how it should value it rather useless.

Whenever I read a comment like that, I find myself thinking this is a much better description of their views:

"I'm too poor to buy Wages of Wins (available from Amazon for $25: http://www.amazon.com/Wages-Wins-Measure-Stanford-Business/dp/0804758441) and I'm too lazy to read how to calculate WP (http://wagesofwins.com/how-to-calculate-wins-produced/) so I'm going to use my ignorance and construct an argument. As a consequence of this ignorance, I'm gonna need someone else to do lots of work for me on my un-researched, ignorant concerns. When you make a claim that is clear, overt, systematic and testable, why should I be expected to actually read the claim? And all this fancy research and information may be freely available, and you may provide numerous FREE tools, but is not good enough for me to learn anything independently. I'm gonna have to go ahead and ask you to do even more stuff in your spare time that, more than likely, I'll refuse to look at or get any context for. I can't possibly learn anything on my own, and I'm gonna go ahead and ask you to go the extra mile and not just do ALL my research for me, but also educate me the way I demand to be educated, which is to drip feed me information while I resist any and all attempts to teach myself, and refuse to get any context because ... because ... because WAH WAH WAH MUMMY, I DON'T WANT TO READ MUMMY, DON'T MAKE ME READ, MUMMY I DON'T WANT TO REEEEEEAAAAAAADDDDDDDD".

Sorry for the immense condescension and sarcasm, but hearing not just ignorant but WILFULLY ignorant comments is so common and nothing else seems to work. Besides which, being condescending is just so much fun :P

That all said, can you do me a favour pretty please Mr Paul Müller, and go read either book (Wages of Wins or Stumbling on Wins), the FAQ (http://wagesofwins.com/FAQ/) OR the how to calculate page? Really, any of the source material you feel might help educate you quickest would be a start. Then, when you come back to any of the various WP fora, I'll willingly listen to your concerns and happily engage in an informed conversation about specific things you find questionable. That sound like a reasonable request?

148 days ago

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Paul Müller

@ Michael Motherwell
I read the FAQ and the calculation page already. The FAQ talks only about the elasticity of Points per field goal attempts and Rebounds, which tells me little about the real contribution of scoring vs Rebounding. (in particular for star level players, which the discussion was about, at least for me)

The calculation of WP, I thought I understood fairly well, but I haven't got the time to actually write a program which calculates WP and sub-parts of it. I might going to do that at some point.

As for the research request, I might have formulated it a little to demanding. The main thing I wanted to point out is that you can't claim a proof that WP is not overvaluing rebounding relative to scoring by looking only at a scoring example. Thus it would be nice if it would be compared to the effect of an historic rebound performance on WP48 to set the example into context. (which would also be not much work for you)
Take for example the 11.9 Def. Rebounds and the 7.4 Off. Rebounds of Anderson Varejao and look at the change in WP if he would Rebound only the average 8.6 Def. and 4.1 Off. Rebounds. I bet the change would be way more than 0.1 WP, thus rendering the shooting example at best inconclusive.

To provide splits was more of a feature request, which you are of course free to consider or ignore. However, I guess many people would like to now how a particular WP number is composed. Looking at the raw data does not always transfer well. At least I am often puzzled if I look at the stats of a player compared to an average player and his respective WP (some small changes seam to have a strong effects on WP).

"Then, when you come back to any of the various WP fora, I'll willingly listen to your concerns and happily engage in an informed conversation about specific things you find questionable. That sound like a reasonable request?"
I actually have a more specific question, which I mentioned already before, but haven't got an answer yet. So if you would like to discuss it with me I would appreciate that.

The assists are modeled into WP in a way that the average improvement of an assist on the shooting efficiency is not deducted from the player who received the assist, but from the rest of the team.
Now I am wondering whether there is a reasoning as to why this is done. It seams reasonable to me, to take the average assist effect and distribute it from the receiver of an assist to the passer. (if a player is improving more through assists or is in general efficient, he can keep much of the assist/scoring value)
Is it only because assists received is not a common box score metric or do you have more general reasons, as to why the assist value should be taken from the rest of the team?

147 days ago


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